I made friends with a young woman studying to be a Protestant pastor here in Germany at the University of Erlangen. Naturally our discussions center on ecumenical questions. Here is the most recent one: I tried to explain— or justify—praying through Mary’s and the saints’ intercession, yet, all the foundation for my argument was lost when my friend stated that in Protestant belief all the dead are dead until the Last Judgment. According to their belief the saints simply cannot intercede for us. The question is not their worthiness as friends of God and good intercessors, but that they are simply dead. What could my comeback be?
It appears that your friend believes in the doctrine of soul sleep. Death occurs when the soul is separated from the body, when a person “gives up the ghost.” Proponents of soul sleep typically hold that “souls after their separation from their bodies are, until the final reunification with the body, in an unconscious or semiconscious condition [1]. Forms of the doctrine of soul sleep have existed at the margins of Christianity from the beginning up through the Reformation.
Of course, the Church teaches that “each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven—through a purification immediately—or immediate and everlasting damnation” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1022).
You might ask your friend to reconcile some Scripture passages with the idea that the dead are not actively conscience. There’s the historical narrative of Matthew 17, in which Moses and Elijah speak with Jesus. In Luke’s Gospel, Jesus gives the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in which Abraham and the rich man converse and Lazarus, it is implied, has the ability to serve the rich man water—both signs of consciousness (Lk. 16:19–31). In Luke 23:43, Our Lord promises the good thief that on that very day he would be with Him in paradise. First Peter 3:18–19 demonstrates that the souls of the dead are capable of hearing the preaching of our Lord and thus are not asleep. Revelation 6:9–10 provides a picture of the souls of the martyrs crying out before the throne of God. Would these cases be exceptions willed by God for His purpose? If so, how and when do these exceptions occur? If there is not a hard rule, isn’t it possible that God can include the saints, especially Mary, in His plan of salvation, just as He included Moses and Elijah?
Martin Luther proposed soul sleep as probable, although it appears that he did not resolve the question to the point of making a universal or absolute declaration. One quote presented on a number of Catholic apologetics sites is indicative: “It is probable, in my opinion, that, with very few exceptions indeed, the dead sleep in utter insensibility till the day of judgment.” It should be noted that John Calvin opposed the doctrine of soul sleep and so do many modern-day Lutheran theologians (Probably, attending Erlangen, your friend is Lutheran). On the other hand, a number of scholars propose some sort of intermediate place that is not purgatory and not heaven, which may or may not include unconsciousness. You may wish to ask your friend about the historical roots and tradition of the doctrine she believes.
Continuing with the theme of history and tradition, you could point to times when the Christian Church addressed soul sleep. For example, the historian Eusebius, remarking that Origen in his later years (c. 245) had become more publicly active, mentions a synod in Arabia:
About the same time others arose in Arabia, putting forward a doctrine foreign to the truth. They said that during the present time the human soul dies and perishes with the body, but that at the time of the resurrection they will be renewed together. And at that time also a synod of considerable size assembled, and Origen, being again invited thither, spoke publicly on the question with such effect that the opinions of those who had formerly fallen were changed [2].
A millennium latter, Pope Benedict XII had to deal with a broader controversy when his predecessor, John XXII, suggested a version of soul sleep. The ensuing debate ended after Benedict convened a commission of theologians, with them studied the Church Fathers, and solemnly pronounced that each person immediately receives his eternal reward or punishment in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death [3].
Looking through Christian history can be appealing because it is, to a point, what both Catholics and Protestants have in common. Obviously, your friend might take better the quote from an ancient historian than the papal pronouncement, even if the latter occurred before the split.
At any rate, this line of discussion is perhaps more helpful than arguments from Scripture or authority because Protestants and Catholics differ fundamentally with regard to each. As Bl. John Henry Newman once said, “To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”
You might therefore consider leaving the issue of soul sleep and return to that of Mary and the saints as intercessors. But instead of (or in addition to) the usual arguments, see together what early Christians believed. In particular, what did the Church Fathers, such as Origen, have to say?
To be clear, quotes from these Christian witnesses do not prove a doctrine. They are more like testimonies of belief. William A. Jurgens edited a compilation of selected writings from the Church Fathers, comprising three volumes, and provided a doctrinal index which groups together passages that pertain to specified topics. Dr. Jurgens warns against the possible desire to “prove” a doctrine by trotting out a declaration made by a great saint.
The Fathers and early Christian writers do not agree with each other with a precise mathematical unanimity, nor could it be expected that they would. And in any case, we must stress that a particular patristic text is in no instance to be regarded as a “proof” of a particular doctrine. Dogmas are not “proved” by patristic statements, but by the infallible teaching instruments of the Church. The value of the Fathers and writers is this: that in the aggregate, they demonstrate what the Church believes and teaches; and again, in the aggregate, they provide a witness to the content of Tradition, that Tradition which is itself a vehicle of revelation [4].
There is not space enough here for a list of quotes by early Christians, but here are a few examples that might whet your appetite [5]:
But these pray along with those who genuinely pray . . . the high priest [Jesus Christ] . . . the angels . . . and also the souls of the saints already at rest (Origen).
Then we make mention of those who have fallen asleep before us, first of patriarchs, prophets, Apostles, martyrs that God would at their prayers and intercessions receive our supplications (St. Cyril of Jerusalem).
If the Apostles and martyrs, while still living on earth, could pray for other men, how much more may they do it after their victories? Have they less power now that they are with Jesus Christ? (St. Jerome).
A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers (St. Augustine).
Christian writers through the centuries attest to the intercession of Mary and the saints. Further, early Christians do the same with their inscriptions and depictions found at ancient churches and catacombs. You might ask your friend to consider the significance of so many witnesses.
[1] Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1960).
[2] Eusebius Pamphilius, Church History, Bk. VI, Ch. XXXVII, “The Dissension of the Arabians.” Accessed at http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf201.iii. xi.xxxvii.html.
[3] The Catechism paragraph quoted above, no.1022, cites Benedict’s papal bull Benedictus Deus (January 29, 1336).
[4] William A. Jurgens, The Faith of the Early Fathers (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1970), v. 1, p. 413.
[5] Quotes from the Early Christians can be found in the text by Jurgens (see above) or online resources such as www.newadvent.org.
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